Episode 19: The Big Ban Theory

Good news, everyone! Free Willy was an astounding success! Not only got Willy of the Osterknacht off the restricted list, but Willy of the Electors too. Mad with power, we still criticize the new FAQ. The one that brought Visit the Haunted City back, at least to multiplayer games. You know, that evil, twisted, unholy abomination of a card that brutally violated the very foundations of the game and should have been cast into the fire of a thousand suns for its crimes. That’s the one that’s allowed again. We can only assume it got a remission for good conduct. We also bring you news, tell you a tragic tale of logos and icons, get you up to speed on Daniel’s Road to Worlds, and top things off with more crazy, long, chaotic ramblings about everything you could possibly consider regarding LCGs.



10 thoughts on “Episode 19: The Big Ban Theory

  1. SenhorDeTodoOMal

    I live in Portugal, 8 people play in my hometown and I know people play in Porto which is a 4 hour drive. (And about 30€ in tolls)

    We don’t even have regular tournaments, much less Regionals or Nationals.

  2. Gert Gustafsson

    Hi guys Great podcast again.
    I would like to express my oppinion on 3 tropics.

    Cataclysm is great for introducing new players but lend them a deck.
    So they get the full experience the first time.
    Done this 2 times now and the new player won 2 times without much help from the experienced player

    FFG s restricted list work fine I think but we are not so competetive, more casual players. The gangup factor brings down the most destructive cards.

    The time to play has been 120 min for a game but that included explaining the rules and playing with 2 new players. All games were 4 player games.

    Keep up the great work

  3. kaine

    At GenCon a new datapack was available in the FFG booth. It was legal for Nationals, so I’d imagine if Hidden Kingdoms is available at the event center it will be legal.

  4. Gnomeschool

    I think a good thing FFG could do for getting new players into the game is releasing some boxes containing the core set and some other expansions with good cards in it for a good price. You could then put in deck lists like in Assault on Ulthuan for a quick start.

    And of course you could easily make some tournaments just with that card pool of these starter boxes. I think that would be fun for experienced too cause limited card pools are something interesting to try out.

    You could do that too with the things you have right now, just allowing everyone to use core set, Assault on Ulthuan and 1-2 battlepacks or something. But I expect many people to rather give these LCGs a chance when there is something new called “starter box”.

    As for the restricted list, I totally agree with you. I tried out Flames of the Phoenix very often and it’s really a very strong card. And in addition to that, it does not really lead to a very interesting situation. I just say “This round all fulcrums stay were there are and because I have one, everything’s fine for me. Let’s proceed to next turn.”
    So in genereal I’m very sceptical. But I want to try out before complaining too much.

  5. bitva

    Corb Polybog; ACTION: When this unit enters play, create a mini-banned list of one card, then, when this unit leaves play, destroy that mini-banned list.

  6. sammann11

    Another great episode – thanks guys. Despite the fact that you went “off script” I actually enjoyed the State of the Game segmet the most I think. You both raise a lot of interesting points.

    I kind of agree with how you said the biggest problem to all 6 (and possibly more) of these LCG’s is having the time to commit to them. I started playing WHI first, about 18 months ago. At that time LOTR wa pretty new and I had that thought: “Oh, I can get everything for relativley cheap with this game.”

    I travel a lot for work and thought that the solo play aspect of that game would be good for nights in the hotel, but I kind of got out of it. More recently I decided to rededicate myself to that game. My brother was the only one here playing WHI with me and he moved away (though we now just play via skype). So I went out and bought 5 Adventure Packs and 1 Deluxe expansion. I opened 1 pack and the big box – but after a week I just thought “You know what, I rathr spend my time building decks and “playtesting” them against myself than play this game!

    Between family and work my free time is precious. Throw 1 LCG, video games and TV into that already too small window and I just didn’t feel that there was time to commit to another game. That and WHI is just a much better and more fun game in my humble opinion.

    So (now that I’ve gone off-script) I agree with what you were saying in that people will do one of two things: stick with the game they love or drop it in favor of the new shiney one. Most people just don’t have time for all those different LCG’s!

    1. sammann11

      * Rather spend my time building WARHAMMER INVAISON decks and playtesting them against myself, that is. I returned the 4 un-opened Adventure Packs and exchanged them for some Battle Packs!

  7. Sean

    It seems the theory about US deck theory vs. European deck theory seems to be based mostly off of Louisville (where Kaine is from) and Indianapolis (where I am from). For example, the Breyherd deck that won at Gen Con that won last year was from Indianapolis.

    Based on that small pool of players, I think that you are right. When I see the decks that finish highly in Poland I often wonder how they went fast enough to win. It is interesting though comparing the different approaches between the two US regions. For example, in Indy we tend to focus more on unit removal and in Louisville they focus on support removal.

    In regards to the multiplayer list. I like that it is a very different list than head to head. It makes me think of Magic. Standard tries to keep everything tight and balanced, where some of the other formats open up everything. Since everyone got their power cards for multiplayer I think it will make the format play differently, and that is a good thing

    1. Daniel

      Yes, of course, there are only a few regions in the US with consistently a dozen or so players, so that’s the whole US meta right there. Interesting point about support versus unit destruction.

      When you see a deck that won in a field of 80 you cannot compare it to a deck that won in a field of 12, you just can’t, and that’s a rule I made up myself. My reasoning is this: A deck that wins a field of 12 usually does one thing really well. End Times is a good example. Another is Call the Brayherd. Those are fast decks with one trick. I’d say that Bobby Graves’ deck is an outlier, I don’t think it follows my wacky theory, so let’s pretend it doesn’t exist for a second. Anyway, so you have these really slick one-trick-pony decks.

      If those one trick decks aren’t making it to the top of big tournaments it’s because people are teching against them specifically, either because they represent a real threat or they have a weakness that can be dealt with easily enough. “I put Hidden Grove in my Empire deck specifically to have Long Winter save me in a clutch from Call the Brayherd/Reclaiming the Fallen/End Times bombs”. With one of those explosive decks you just need to run into one or two anti-decks and boom, you’re in the middle of the pack and don’t make the cut. So those decks get routinely beaten, fall out of favour, or both. Then the decks that win look more toolbox-y, try new things, or are slower, because the meta isn’t dominated by speed anymore: running a pure speed deck is just too damn risky. There isn’t such a risk in a smaller tournament, you don’t need to go 5-2, you need to win 2 or 3 games if there even is a cut.

      So looking at a big tournament winner and thinking “I wonder how fast that deck is” is the wrong way to think about it, because that implies a faster deck would win over the winning deck. Anyway, that’s just my idea on the subject because I’ve only played in one card tournament with over 50 people and I was in the bottom, I dunno, 6?

  8. gertat

    Dont know if Winvasion accept this kind of replys but here it goes and if you dont just remove it.

    This weekend there here a convention i Malmo Sweden called SydCon 2013.
    It hosted a Nordic Championship in Netrunner and X-wing.
    Where the winner got a free tripp to the worlds.

    I feel a little jealous about that and that Warhammer Invasion gamecommunity isnt at the same level.
    So instead of sulking about it I have decieded to try to do something about it.

    So I reach out to Warhammer Invasion players in the Nordic countries.

    Players in Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Finland.
    What do you say?
    Should it not be a Nordic championship 2014 for Warhammer Invasion?

    You can contact me here in the FFG forums or on this Facebook group


    Hope to hear from you


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