Episode 16: Occupy fulcrum

We’re back! With a whole bunch of news, and some multiplayer strategy thoughts as well as DIY MP restricted/banned lists (DIYMPRBLs, as we professionals call them). We also get to embarrassingly mispronounce Polish names again, bring you an update on Daniel’s Road to Worlds, explore the idea of subspace travel, and look back at The Fourth Waystone.

And we still got a contest going on! You can win a signed copy of Hidden Kingdoms. So grab the funniest Invasion-related image you can come up with and send it to us.


Click below for stuff we mention this episode:


Forums threads about the North American and Polish nationals, and a collection of decks from the latter.

Everything you need to know about the new Warhammer art sleeves and maybe more than you ever wanted to know about safewords, bronies, and MLP: The Card Game (come on, it even sounds like an LCG!).

Now in the Winvasion store: shirts with your favorite episode titles, 10% off!

Now available in the Winvasion store: shirts with your favorite episode titles, 10% off!

Sadly not available in the Winvasion store, despite great customer interest.

Sadly not available in the Winvasion store, despite great customer interest.

13 thoughts on “Episode 16: Occupy fulcrum

  1. Sean

    At the Gen Con tournament I used cacophonic scream twice at Gen Con. It was not really necessary either time, as a big attack probably would have accomplished the same thing but it was safer. I had included the card as a way to get past big defender units, pleasure cults, and Orc Warning Post. I also used it because I knew no one would be expecting it.

    1. Daniel

      That’s amazing! So how did the final match go? What did you in? Was it a Judgement of Verena that destroyed all your stuff? Churches of Sigmar making it too expensive to use entry triggers on your units? We need a full blown tournament report at this point.

  2. przemo

    Hi guys,
    about EMP combo, Pigeon Bombs are not the problem (however, they should be limited, just like Fists, and also Snares I hope), the real problem with the loop, is Order in Chaos, and that could be Limited, to stop the recrusion now or in the future.

    1. Daniel

      Thanks for the comment. It’s nice to see cards from the old days coming back to cause major problems for the devs 🙂 Not Innovation, though? Those two old guys talking are not dangerous enough?

  3. Gnomeschool

    Though or maybe because I haven’t enough players at the moment to play multiplayer games, I revisited all cards in my folders at home for multiplayer.

    I totally agree with the bans and restrictions Torsten made, but I assume there should be even more:
    Shield of Aeons (banned, because on a hero in my battlefield it protects my fulcrums too easily)
    Offering to Hekarti (restricted or even banned… but as I wrote above, I didn’t tried it myself yet)
    Master Rune of Spite (restricted, just like the other mass removals)
    Facebeater (restricted, because putting a big orc unit in my battlefield for free each turn that may defend or attack is … kind of nice)
    Dark Elf Infiltrator (restricted, because as long as you’re not last player, it’s a unit for free with a penalty for an opponent.)

    In general I think it’s really exciting to have this alternate timing structure that totally changes the use of very many cards.
    Some more I found:
    Rogue Warrior. Should be very good in multiplayer, as it’s very likely that you can ambush him again. Many ambush cards become a lot stronger now, placing them in the battlefield. To get them earlier, one may use Shadow Sentinel, because it triggers more often.

    Warriors of Ulric and Johannes Broheim can be moved VERY often each turn. With Greatswords or something like that this could be awesome.
    Gold Wizard Acolyte can target 2 units that can’t defend each turn. So you may need 3 units in your battlefield to have at least one defender for your fulcrum against Gold Wizard Acolyte… sounds good to me.
    With Tactical Misdirection you may defend ALL zones. Even opponents’ ones. Give me one or two good counterstrike units and it’s awesome.

    Druchii Noble attacks with 3 power the second time and can weaken the defenders of the second attack twice.
    Also the Bloodcall Sorceress’s ability to make other units lose power become very useful now.
    With some luck, Vaedra Bloodsworn could be good too, seeing that you may choose an opponent that has some big cards in his deck

    For the dwarfes I like Lure Them Out and Great Book of Grudges. Their Legends Grombrindal and Ungrim Baragor could be very funny too in theory. In practise they won’t see play in multiplayer because they’ll need much effort in economy, I think.
    Spirit Slayer should be very annoying too when choosing 2 traits that more than one opponent has units with… (for his action will affect the other player’s battlefield phases too.)

    And even such useless cards like Moon Staff of Lileath could be useful now. Wow. Never expected that.

    There is a bunch of cards, where I’m not sure how they work in multiplayer, like Bonegrinder Giant (when attacking a fulcrum) or Pegasus Knight (ditto) and paranoia (can every player activate its action? Then it should be banned too. I think the intention here was, that the unit’s controlling player may use this action. So it should get an errata.)

    Nice episode again!

    1. Torsten Post author

      I’ll add Shield of Aeons to my banned list, forgot about that.

      Beyond that, well, it’s the old issue. What’s good, what’s very good, and what’s too good, so good it breaks the game? For example, I think a unique Hekarti is stronger in MP than it is in SP, but not too strong (and there are one or two more opponents who might knock the unit off the quest), and Master Rune of Spite hardly even qualifies as mass removal for me anymore with almost every unit being able to survive at least one.

      Regarding the lists I made, they are works in progress. I still have my doubts regarding the Invoke Khaine’s Wrath and Grimgor restrictions, and part of me still thinks Van Klumpf’s should be banned. And I consider Harpy Aerie so strong in MP I’m thinking maybe it should be restricted too. It’s a difficult subject, and a continuing process as we can all see from the SP lists’ evolution over time. Which is I why I hope the devs take care of it soon. I’m hoping I’ll need the lists for this one tournament only, and just wanted to take care of the most obvious problem cards (and get some discussion going).

  4. Magehammer

    Actually, in regards to the comparison between Essen and Gen Con, they actually have close to the same number of single participants. The difference is Essen counts the number of times an individual goes through the gates. Thus, if Torsten attended Essen four times, he would be counted as four people where if he were to go to Gen Con all four days, he would be counted once.

    This explanation is covered by Tom Vasel in one of his news videos on the Dice Tower You Tube channel and was pointed out to him by no other than Chris Petersen.

    Hopefully, that clears things up a bit.

    1. Torsten Post author

      Well, well, well. It seems GenCon is, to use the words of a wise man, a big corporate schmoozefest.

      Let’s not forget though: 154000 Essen attendees – that number’s in metric! The 159000 for GenCon are not. Remember, meters > feet and kilograms > pounds. So there have to be more people in Essen. The logic is irrefutable.

      Also, if you placed all the Essen attendees on top of each other from here to the sun, they’d die. So there’s that.

  5. Sammann11

    Guys – this whole Brony sub-culture is blowing my mind!!! I can not wrap my mind around the existence of these Bronies. One mouse click after another from the Brony Wikipedia page and I came across all sorts of mind-bogeling Brony business: Brong cos-play; a Brony documentary made about Bronies, by Bronies, for Bronies; and most disturbingly – BronyCon!!! I just can’t understand how 8,400 grown men can attend a Brony-friggin-Con and I can’t get one guy in a 3 state area to play WH:I with! What happened to the good ol days when fanboys were into cool nerdy stuff – orcs, swords, blood, battle?!?! Next I’ll find out these Bronies all date supermodels!!!!!

  6. Junglecat

    Very enjoyable podcast Winvasion dudes! Especially the talk of Torstens Cataclysm errata while we wait for any official word from FFG. What do you think of the following idea – The attack you make on a fulcrum does NOT count as an attack on the battlefield. It would take someone experienced with this kind of careful rules wording to make it work right, but once worded properly, would solve a large number of potential issues such as Doors of Karak Hirn, a bunch of fortification cards, Van Klumpfs Buccaneers (partially anyway), Blood Dragon Knight, Gold Wizard Acolyte, etc.


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